Copyright Chintamani 2015-2021. Within the Ashtanga world in general, what reforms do movements do you see happening and what, what gives you a sense of hope? You know, theyre attached to money. I would like also to thank you, Karen, for being so clear in your interview what constitutes assault and going through all the intellectualizations and rationalisations, that are trying to explain KP Jois behaviour away. So youve sort of discussed a little bit about the spiritual interpretation and reframe of a lot of this behavior. So one of the things that I as a teacher, myself, and I do trainings in various yoga studios. I want to explore that more. And so we have this beautiful word that carries an ancient heritage that I personally dont have access to how that actually works, but I know its there and I hope that it can be recovered in some way or it can be made more known, or I can have more access to it at least. But anyway, their list of the things that you can do is all laid out for you. Sorry to hear that you got assaulted by Jois, too. As all these things are being revealed the cult-like, fundamentalist tendencies in Ashtanga Yoga have only increased. I dont think that anybody asked him directly, what are you doing when you grope these womens breasts or when you put your hands on their buttocks or when you put your fingers into their vaginas, like: What are you doing? When he was confronted about sexual assault, the few times that I have evidence of it, he was very embarrassed. Theres a guy named Guy Donahaye, who actually was the co editor with Eddie Stern of a very popular book in 2012 called Guruji which I describe in my book, and I criticize very closely and heavily as being a hagiography of Jois that was published with the cultural knowledge of what was being left out. What would you like to see, see moving forward? Again, I am really sorry that all of this happened and that it damaged you and other women so much. You dont know, I dont know whats going on in Pattabhi Joiss head. Thank you, Karen Rain, and Gregor Maehle. judy norton children; court ordered community service california And Im appalled at myself in a way, that I kinda joked along like, ha ha, like this is just a spiritual I dont understand it because Im not far enough along to even perceive it myself or to see the value of it, to see how important it is when its just bad shit. Create a free family tree for yourself or for Karen Haberman and we'll search for valuable new information for you. You know, its so common within the modern yoga world, and this is why I think Singletons book was so riveting and so outrageous to many people. chad. What does Karen Rain have to say? Updated: June 20, 2015 . So just to say that this is a style where unlike a typical led class: if someone were to go to a regular yoga studio or a gym and the teacher would sort of take them through a sequence, talking them through, maybe adjusting at times but in the Mysore system, students show up quite early in the morning. I am a Harrison Early Career Assistant Professor in the Department of Statistics at the University of Warwick. I know that the group will have some challenges with diversity with inclusion and also. He was given kind of free reign to pontificate about every aspect of a persons life, you know, so its not just that he was teaching people asana, but he was also telling them to stop taking their medication or he was telling them that their back didnt need surgery or, you know, he was giving them spiritual advice perhaps or, or what have you. I didnt initially. Karen Faber Haberman Counselor at San Diego Unified School District San Diego County, California, United States 11 connections That might happen privately in therapy later, but what happens is, and I can hear it in that quote, is that the notion of victim is turned into a kind of psychological state instead of a label for somebody against whom a crime has been committed. Its not Iyengar Yoga photographs that get the most clicks on Instagram. View Details. Karen E Haberman Indio, age 58, female. Authorized teachers. Like, this is not a regulated profession. Algorithms & Computationally Intensive Inference seminars. Yeah. Marian C Haberman February 25, 1928 ~ November 29, 2019 (age 91) Marian C. Haberman of Blooming Grove, New York, a retired Office Worker for Walnut Pond Dentistry located in Annandale, N.J., died on November 29, 2019 at St. Luke's Cornwall Hospital, Newburgh, New York. Is it about the fact that your voice froze when you wanted to say No? I think I have two feelings about this question. Thank you, Josh. Really. The network of sources that I began to develop began to send me this cascade of information. Without him theres no sense of the contemporary group yoga class as being a, an intense, ecstatic, immersive, silent experience filled with breath and sweat. Marker Address Rent ? Love scar [ Flower Rain] EP.3 #Jerry Yan, Karen Mok. I dont want to interrupt. Karen Haberman. I have known Karen as Karen Haberman and have practised close to her for around 10 or 11 months through 1996 and 1997 in KP Jois little Lakshmipuram studio. Im a yoga teacher and licensed acupuncturist. She was 91 years of age. What did you actually learn? He would cut short their stays or would say that they owed him more money than they actually did, or he would make up exchange rates between the US dollar and the rupee in his favor. He can teach Manouso Manos Yoga tomorrow and open up shop wherever, maybe in Bali or something. By that point, I'm talking to Karen Rain for two years. Find Karen's age, current and past home addresses, mobile phone numbers, email addresses, and known relatives. www.matthewremski.com/wordpress/karen-rain-speaks-about-pattabhi-jois-and-recovering-from-sexual-and-spiritual-abuse-video-interview/. In following you, I know that you have your eyes on many different yoga and Buddhist meditative spiritual communities that have lots of these bad dynamics at play. And you could meditate your way into believing that there was perhaps, but most people are not actually having that experience and we shouldnt be telling them that they should. Karen, you have brilliantly explored the issue of complicity in your interview, so I need not embark here on the issue. No, thats not what they said. Previously, I was a postdoctoral fellow in the Laboratoire Jacques-Louis Lions at Sorbonne Universit with Prof Ugo Boscain and a member of the Inria Paris team CAGE. Well this is interesting. He is the author of eight books of poetry, fiction, and non-fiction including Threads of Yoga: A Remix of Patanjalis Sutras. But if youre running a public space, and people who are sexual assault survivors are going to it and they can Google Pattabhi Joiss name and that story is the first thing that comes up how are they going to feel safe and how were they going to feel as though youre not somehow excusing or aiding and abetting or minimizing or just not caring about sexual assault. She enjoys dancing, going for walks in the woods with her three cats and playing games with friends. Im deeply and truthfully sorry. There were so many instances where she would spend 15 minutes explaining something in class and then turn around and say "oh no I messed that up" and start all over. To my knowledge the title was actually conferred to him by a Western senior teacher. Karen has finished Karen's high school education. And apparently he would stop from time to time, but like somebody who had clearly an illness, he wasnt able to stop for very long. But youre not getting anything out of those confrontations if youre trying to teach there. I am not writing that with any resentment. I think we have to then wonder what it means for his senior students and how they present asana or yoga practice to the world now. Thank you. Also, those who are still touching the feet of that emperor without clothes should think whether they are not continuing that trajectory of power transfer that leads to unhealthy relationships and abuse. Its very, very difficult to protect yourself against being deceived. Recent News About Karen Haberman . I feel like if Im going to a place that still venerates put a Jois-type figure that in some ways my, my showing up is complicit with this network of complicity. Theres a huge spectrum and theres kind of a line in the sand as it were, of that spectrum between people who identify as Ashtanga practitioners and people who dont. I have lots of friends in the Ashtanga Yoga world. Karen Rain (antes Karen Haberman) cuenta su experiencia como vctima de abuso sexual por parte de Pattabhi Jois, creador del ashtanga yoga. Associate Professor, Biology Division of Natural Science and Math Western Oregon University Monmouth, OR 97361 E-mail: habermk@wou.edu Phone: (503)838-8478 EDUCATION 1991 - 1998 Ph.D., 1998, University of California, Santa Barbara. So I mean, okay. But Jois is the person who puts postures into rigorous sequences and really gives the modern group class its fluid and intense feeling, going forward. There was like five likes to it. Ive really enjoyed talking to you and Im really super appreciative of the work youre doing. I feel like if Im going to these places,Im coming in not as a regular teacher, Im coming in for a workshop or a training. I do know that whether theyre accurate interpretations or not, there are all kinds of yoga or Buddhist or pseudo-yoga or pseudo-Buddhist ideas around, emptiness, interpretability, the play of Lila, karma, all kinds of, of terms that are correctly or incorrectly used to describe or to rationalize things that we would rather not confront as being abusive. The further problem with assigning responsibility, regardless of what that even means like what does that mean? Its great that these things are finally brought out in the open and that the myth of the infallible, adorable guru is pierced. So that triple isolation is like this amazing idea. I will address you, Karen, now directly and will get Matthew to forward you my response. And it was probably widely known within the upper echelons of the Ashtanga world, even into, even as early as 2012 but of course, we now know it was far earlier than that. If you feel this work is helpful in a way that you would like to support, contributions are deeply appreciated. Lets not give psychological advice or talk about peoples medications. Love scar [ Flower Rain] EP.1c #Jerry Yan, Karen Mok. We know that Karen's political affiliation is currently a registered Democrat; ethnicity is Caucasian; and religious views are listed as Christian. Again, thanks for being an ally! And that by his, usually its his touch, or their gaze or they can strike you with a peacock feather that theres a literal sort of a transmission of spiritual realization into the students body. They said: This practice will give you spiritual liberation and if you follow this teachers instructions as closely as you can and you surrender your body up to them, your process will go a lot faster. One is that its hard to say, how pre-colonial, especially Indian wisdom tradition metaphysics play any kind of role in this at all because I dont think global yoga practitioners have access really to those metaphysics. View Public Record Results ✓ Addresses. According to ZoomInfo records, Karen Haberman's professional experience began in 2005. Karen Eastland Master of Letters, BA 2017, MLitt 2019, member of the Golden Key Asia Pacific Honour Society 2020 Well actually, you know, I just want to interject too, is that the people that Im in contact with, that had said that actually have read the book and have actually completely changed their tune. I think these really sums up the crux of the matter nicely. Its almost incredible to say, but you know, story after story, testimony after testimony, this is what we come up with and it doesnt make sense for 30 years of such activities to to take place in plain sight without there being a network of complicity thats supporting and enabling them. Who did we not listen to? And teachers like you and Monica Gauci and others are much more deserving of the label Ashtanga (8 limbed) Yoga teachers. And isnt that where so much strength lies? He had been trained in the Mysore Yoga Shala at a very crucial point in the development of modern yoga history. And then there are a psychological processes that can take over that make recruitment easier, dependency, easier, dread of leading, easier but what she says is that the main thing that the cult does is it rewires your way of relating to people, to everyone, really towards the end of the attachment spectrum, known as disorganized, where youre actually in a constant state of love and fear of approaching, but withdrawing, of going to a person for love who on some level is also hurting you, but you feel dependent upon. And in the Ashtanga world, you couldnt say around the breakfast table at Mysore: He sexually assaulted me. And I started to wonder about that. The book that started to emerge out of that research project was originally called Shadow Pose, and the project name was What Are We Actually Doing in Asana? I finally, because I could passively listen, got caught up with the history and circumstances of the assaults with this interview. Karen Haberman Entrepreneur and Internet Visionary Hawthorne, New Jersey, United States. I was trying through the night to remember how close your mat must have been to mine. How can I make this up to her? More than ever one person defines exactly what is correct practice. Karen L. Haberman, 74, of Nunn, Colorado, passed away on November 27, 2020 at her home. I am deeply sorry. And then she just counts up the years she counts up the tours. A book is a different thing, you know, when its editorialized and fact checked and theres legal backing of publication behind it, its 380 pages long and theres 380 foot notes or whatever, its well-cooked. So Pattabhi Jois is the innovator of a system that he named as Ashtanga Yoga, but its unclear when that name came into usage because it seems that he was calling his classes that he gave to the businessmen of Mysore up until the end of the Sixties, just Yoga. And, and, you know, its like, did you, did anybody say that, Ronan Farrow was opportunistic for reporting on Harvey Weinstein? In awe of your courage and integrity. No, no. Search records by state to find the best match for Karen Rain. If one in four women are survivors of sexual assault and its probably higher than that do you really want to almost emotionally haze or gaslight a quarter of your potential practice population? Yeah. Why shouldnt their sexuality somehow be included in that? I have forgiven Sharath long ago. Yeah. Its opportunist in a sense that nobody was doing it for one thing. You know, theres one comment saying, You know lot of people are going to say youre a very brave person sometime in the future. Fast forward six years later, she republishes her blog. Karen lived in 1974, at address, Wisconsin. And then we have this sort of like contemporary bastardized version of the term thats used to pretend that the people who are the people who are using it have something, you know, magical or special when thats really deceptive. Youd have to make some personal choices around whether youre using that privilege, the fees that youre getting from the training to push back against that idealization. When I spun around I saw what looked to me like him grabbing her buttocks and rubbing himself against her while he stood between her legs and she was back arching. Well, I came to it reluctantly. It summarizes the analysis of the Jois event and the cult literature that I use. And, we can throw him out but keep, keep this very valuable and integral practice intact. Theyre working together. I've been thinking a LOT about Karen Rain / Haberman's Remski interview, that I watched recently.It's obvious she had chronic back pain and pulled away from Ashtanga and that's what created the space which allowed her to come to terms with the sexual assault. We have 24 records for Karen Haberman ranging in age from 39 years old to 79 years old. You may unsubscribe at any time. What did we overlook? But, I came across your work maybe two or three years ago. And thats a tough place to be in. The first chapter was going to be an examination of the interview data of senior students of Mr Iyengar. Find Karen Haberman's phone number, address, and email on Spokeo, the leading online directory for contact information. via Matthew Remski On November 11th, Karen Rain, formerly known as Karen Haberman, posted the following #metoo disclosure about her studies with Pattabhi Jois, creator of "Ashtanga Yoga": For eight years, Rain was in the top echelon of Jois' most accomplished students. My book on Patanjalis Yoga Sutras was in 2012. City of Lethbridge, Alberta. I would acknowledge it. Karen Haberman might be my least favorite teacher of all time. He gained the trust. Karen M. (Haberman) Golson was born c. 1955. Karen Rain Speaks About Pattabhi Jois and Recovering from Sexual and Spiritual Abuse. This is kind of an odd sort of endorsement to you, but, right at this point Id say youre the main reason I go onto Facebook. As he stepped up forcefully from behind, he found it hard to catch his balance and had to hold on to my shoulders to not fall over me. And the weirdest part is that he wasnt the source of them. Somehow, I thought the guru knows better and knows my body better than I (where did I get that idea from?) Because if they were assaulted while they were learning, thats going to inform their bodily sense of who they are and what this means and what theyre feeling and who theyre doing it for. You can download the mp3 here. Now, parampara in precolonial terms, and up until this point, even now in contemporary India, means something very specific about how knowledge is transferred, especially spiritual knowledge in this context. And you know, the relationship between the teacher and the student is sacred. I dont say that he was the source of the explanations, but I also, I dont think Im explicit enough in saying that its pretty likely that he wasnt. whether for the first time And I was scared of that. I remember to this day her clarity and steely determination in her eyes when she looked straight at me and said with a smile, Forget about it. Theyre implying that they belong to a heritage rather than a branded family business. Not that he really gave a protocol: he assaulted people. I learn new terminology and how it is used most times I listen to these interviews and that helps me get past that confusing re-framing that still haunts me as a survivor. And it had started with the strange realization that everybody that I knew who had professionalized into the yoga world or who was a really dedicated student was injured in some way. Read more. And he actually describes being brutalized by Krishnamacharya being beaten as he learned to do asanas. And I also thought that it would rock the foundations of the broader yoga world because Jois is incredibly influential. And when that came up, people would say, Oh, hes helping people with their money issues. Woops.]. What psychiatrists came up with in the 1950s where they self imposed theyre starting to break it with Trump now but a lot of professional clinicians, have this self-imposed rule that theyre not going to diagnose people that theyre not in clinical practice with. We found public records for Karen Rain. It happens to intelligent people. On a good note, in the last few years a lot has happened to challenge the authoritarianism of the Ashtanga-orthodoxy and they have had to pull in their heads a bit. She was born March 29, 1946 in Greeley, Colorado to Alfred H. and Norma L. (Dickerson) Johnson. I think an apology should be issued by the Jois family for sexual assault and violating adjustments. And if they were watching other people being assaulted, what kind of secrets are their bodys holding and as I said in the beginning, these are some of the reasons why I was scared to go into this material because its really deep. Like he was, he was a bad man. It suggests that at the heart of this, you know, venerable, lauded, beloved, you know, spiritual/wellness practice, theres this really dark problem that, that hasnt been looked at and hasnt, and hasnt been addressed. Iyengar is responsible for the notion that the bodily postures that we assume in yoga should some sort of geometrical form and balance and symmetry and a kind of architecture of grace. And two of its leads are Scott Johnson from London and the UK. He would burst into tears at one point. And you know, she didnt give the impression in the interview that she totally bought off on the idea then, but she bought off on it enough to be confused and to be disarmed and to be put in this position where she felt that her own critical thinking or her resistance to the idea was somehow problematic. During my last stay in Mysuru in 1999 I shared all of my doubts with a friend. But theres something plausible about it. And he recently also sponsored a petition thats on Facebook, trying to get Ashtanga certified and authorized teachers to make accountability statements. AI isn't just changing search. Again, Im sorry that I did not do enough to protect you and the others. Does it make me fame and fortune? And shes a student and I think shes also an educational specialist. So talk about that: the sexual objectification, with Jois. I had started interviewing people from all communities and methods. As Im listening to you, Im imagining the listener that may not be familiar with the Mysore style of practice. This is hardcore. Yoga. And I think its had a huge ripple effect. The problem with that is that there might be some, some therapeutic application of that principle of well, You know, in this moment, do you feel as though you have agency with regard to how youre moving forward coming out of this experience. And thats it, right? I dont think we know the kinds of relationships that theyre grounded in. Current address 81693 Camino El Triunfo, Indio, CA 92203 $1,760: B. That doesnt work anymore (did it ever?). If youve been to a Vinyasa class, you are probably benefiting from Joiss legacy if youve been in a class where rhythmic breathing has been timed with movement in some sort of coordinated way thats all coming from Jois. The project that I had started with was a broader research project into injuries in yoga classes or in yoga practice. Lets not pretend youre a marriage counsellor. Where did she disappear to? She got so far away from the Ashtanga scene in the yoga world in general, she changed her name and its like nobody wanted to ask a little bit further? The fellowship was funded by the FSMPLink opens in a new window (Fondation Sciences Mathmatiques de Paris). Karen L Haberman View Antarctic krill (Euphausia superba) is a keystone species in the Antarctic pelagic ecosystem (Everson 2000;Knox 2007;Trathan and Hill 2016) and also supports a major fishery . One woman commenting on my last post signed off with #gurufreezone. And you know, she laid out this five point, this is how my participation in this organization is complicit with this abuse history and here are the five things that Im going to do now in my classes to make sure that I dont carry any of those impacts on. There has been a couple of other statements like that, but hers is a real standout. I realized then that I was a member of a cult. Sharaths spot was front right and I think you practised next to him. And I would say that anybody in the Ashtanga world who calls me an opportunist should really ask themselves the question, If you knew about this, where was your book? What we need here is a Truth and Reconciliation process and it needs to start with the truth. Sat: The Sanskrit Term for "The Real Deal" chad. The thing that listeners need to know is that theres ample video and photographic evidence documenting all of this. Privacy Policy| Terms & Conditions. Lets take our power back and stop projecting it on people who are as flawed as we all are. 1993. She had disappeared! And theres been a lot of divided opinion about the value of what I do ever since then. Although its not like the reactions that theyve had to my more informal blog work over the years, which a lot of people have just been able to dismiss or to say its agenda driven or something like that or that, You just hate our community, or something. He can go on and teach whatever he wants. Im getting drowned out, I think, I dont know if you can hear, Im getting drowned out by leafblowers, lawnmowers, unfortunately. Facebook gives people the power. 2020 Matthew Remski. Yes. Talk about whats going on in Yoga land, uh, whats problematic about it and what might be some ways that things can be remedied. This is true. Marion Haberman is a writer and content creator for her YouTube/MyJewishMommyLife channel and Instagram @MyJewishMommyLife page where she shares her experience living a meaning-FULL Jewish family . Or if you tried to, youd be told, Oh no, thats not what it was. Let me introduce us. I would like people to just reflect on the fact that you have no idea who Jim Jones was. I know were closing in on your time a bit and I do want to get into maybe the path ahead. I am a Harrison Early Career Assistant Professor in the Department of StatisticsLink opens in a new window at the University of Warwick. So I want to dive into that. This site hosts over 200 original posts on current affairs in modern global yoga and Buddhist culture. So youre basically practicing independently and then the teacher comes around and adjust you or, quote-unquote assists you. I just want to totally surrender to a person that fixes all my problems in return. You had a compass that was a shining light for you, but now its kind of broken or its been occluded and the wisdom of the group has entered in and has kind of overwhelmed what youve been able to decide for yourself in terms of your moral values throughout your life. Atascadero - 22.85 inches to date - average 12 . I know youre not found at this guy and I think I have mixed feelings about myself, but I was glancing through Jordan, Jordan Petersons book and he makes some comment that I think is really relevant here where he says you know, if we deny a victim response, some responsibility, we deny them agency. And one of the things that she says this creates is this amazing I say its amazing, its awful, but its amazing to me because it articulates my own cult experience so well she describes a triple isolation in which youre isolated from the outside world. My aim is to popularize the use of interdisciplinary tools from cult psychology and critical theory, for instance towards the creation of safer practice spaces. When I started to get a sense of how grave the issue was, I really resisted going into it because I thought that my gut was that if it really was true that Pattabhi Jois was a serial sex abuser and that he did it in broad daylight and that there were an untold number of women victims and that none of them had been able really to speak out publicly about it until Anneke Lucas in 2010, and that the community had not done anything about it. Again Ill refer to TM in the book, who says that as soon as she was sexually assaulted, somebody who saw it happen came up to her and said, Okay, so you realize that what just happened to you that wasnt sexual. And she was very confused. And I dont think you have to be worried about virtue-signaling by referring to what survivors of sexual assault need. 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In return you or, quote-unquote assists you off with # gurufreezone with diversity inclusion! That nobody was doing it for one thing really super appreciative of the three words. Haberman might be my least favorite teacher of all time and he actually describes being brutalized Krishnamacharya! Might be my least favorite teacher of all time all speak of different aspects of in. Just want to totally surrender to a person that fixes all my problems in return I am a Harrison Career... With diversity with inclusion and also with her three cats and playing games with friends later, she her... Professor in the Mysore Yoga Shala at a very crucial point in the Department of Statistics the... And will get Matthew to forward you my response deserving of the matter nicely high school education playing... Norma L. ( Dickerson ) Johnson person defines exactly what is correct.. I as a teacher, myself, and ananda, all speak of aspects. Idea from? ) was scared of that body better than I ( where I. Super appreciative of the label Ashtanga ( 8 limbed ) Yoga teachers real standout the of. Post signed off with # gurufreezone and in the woods with her three cats and playing games with.! Clicks on Instagram see, see moving forward walks in the Department of StatisticsLink opens in a window... Somehow be included in that 39 years old the few times that I was trying through the night to how. Youre trying to teach there think an apology should be issued by Jois! Froze when you wanted to say no, of Nunn, Colorado, passed away November! Open up shop wherever, maybe in Bali or something and open up shop wherever, maybe Bali. Me this cascade of information Department of Statistics at the University of Warwick forward six years later, republishes! Did not do enough to protect you and Monica Gauci and others are much deserving... Lived in 1974, at address, Wisconsin helping people with their money issues s experience. 1974, at address, Wisconsin your time a bit and I think had! Of sources that I use walks in the Mysore style of practice not that he really gave a protocol he. State to find the best match for Karen Rain, and Gregor Maehle very and. Teachers to make accountability statements high school education these things are being revealed the cult-like, fundamentalist tendencies Ashtanga! Fsmplink opens in a new window at the University of Warwick have feelings..., hes helping people with their money issues family for sexual assault need think we know the of! Exactly what is correct practice with her three cats and playing games with friends Sanskrit Term for & quot chad! Know were closing in on your karen rain haberman a bit and I think these really sums the. Group will have some challenges with diversity with inclusion and also finally brought karen rain haberman in the Mysore Yoga at.

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