While continuing to observe the barrels, crank the engine. Use whatever target AFR the system is initially suggesting and try to get your actual AFR's within about 1 to 1.5 of that value. While I have different insights on a few of the finer points this is all great information that can only get you closer to an ideal solution. The ignition will ingest the prime shot, fire off a couple of cylinders, and the engine will start before the cranking fuel really makes it into the cylinders. Is this normal? shut truck off. and set 3.) Thanks in advance. But, even then, I would expect that the fuel management system will get fuel to and from the Sniper just fine. 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. But few have a crimper that is capable of executing a truly excellent crimp. How did you install the return line to the tank? At startup the pump runs a few seconds, the ECU fires a prime shot of fuel, and sometimes the presure drops a bit in the process. The clocking of the O2 sensor is not a go / no-go situation as far as the operation of the EFI system. Have you ever watched a post nuclear apocalypse movie? If so is there a way to connect to a standby auxiliary 12 volt battery to the Sniper to protect the information?Many thanks,Louis. If that is your situation I would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe. i can hear the pump, but nothing is coming through the fuel line. Engine is a BBC 533 and makes just about 800HP. Capability Range: Advanced I look forward to your opinion on this matter. 4.56 rear gear and total weight is 2825 with me. Does the sniper kit support dual O2 sensors? Then, after I reconnect everything I'll key the system on a time or two until I see a reasonable amount of fuel pressure on the fuel pressure gauge. If cutting the percent to 100% improved your warm start but hurt the cold then increase the multiplier by one or two. In all fairness, the Holley instructions MAKE THIS POINT CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey! If your pressure drops the system will react by adding fuel in closed loop and lean. I hope to do more articles similar to this so stay tuned! Activate Advanced Tables2. Capability Range: Professional If you are going to be working on something that will require you to key the system on several times without starting the engine, you might want to consider removing the fuel pump relay found in the harness. Avoid using any 90 degree fittings between the tank and pump. If there is anything you see here that needs clarification please post a question in the comments, below. Do I still need the holley 12-753 30 amp relay. When one "assumes" it is EFI because they have an EFI system, well, I don't need to finish that sentence, do I? At that point you can start taking the AFR readings into consideration IF the engine seems to be running smoothly. . By going with an aftermarket manifold you avoid that issue entirely.Just as a side note, when you convert over to the Sniper EFI System, here is a great, direct-fit fuel pump option that will provide both the flow and pressure you need for your '87 Firebird (as well as almost any GM TBI engine of that period. You have that where you want it. (Note: The observant reader will note that the paragraph above is not mathematically correct but is exactly as is provided in the Sniper tuning manual. Gary. Hi Chris,Thank you so much for your quick response to my query. I have the 12-1800 dual holley pump also. But I have MSD 6 AL. Compression, properly metered fuel, correctly timed spark. Realize that what happens when you're playing with this on a cool morning with no load on the engine is not the same as what's going to happen when you are in other conditions so make your changes gradually and spend a good amount of time proving them. is setting themselves up for unnecessary frustration. More on that later. RPM Above Idle to Re-Enable Idle Control.You could simply drop 2.) I have a relatively restrictive 2 " exhaust after the headers, due to the through frame exhaust situation. Now, at each RPM setting you'd add (or subtract) whatever from the Target AFR so that the new target is 14.0:1. Copyright 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. All Rights Reserved. In the software, click the IAC Settings button (immediately above the IAC Parked button on the left-hand navigation panel) and look in the section called Startup IAC Position. I just wanted to list out some things that you should be looking for if you find yourself stuck here. Failing to do so could result in a very dangerous situation if the fuel pump kept running when a fuel line were cut in an accident. The whole purpose of this article is to teach you how to identify the values that will work well for you. Fix that.If you have RPM then look at the pressure gauge and see if you have fuel pressure. Do you have fuel pressure? to the same number as 4.) In my experience startup fuel tends to be too much. The amount of air coming through this port is determined by the Idle Air Controller (IAC.) Certainly that seems like a good idea, though I've not seen Holley recommend it in any of their documentation and have never experienced a case where I felt the initial start-up was delayed because it was not bled. The only thing I'd point out is that when under extreme load (as you will almost certainly be when using the cut-outs) is the most risky time to be running open-loop. Lets note for the record that the time from power on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds. This is extremely unreliable afrer warm. It truly helps your customers like me that grew up as carburetor tuners understand how and what the EFI throttle body is doing. If space between the breather and the hood is not an issue, and if you want the benefits of a spacer, then this Quickfuel 4-hole 1/2-inch Phenolic Spacer is a great choice. Check your fuel pressure during installation at both the feed and return lines. Can I get ready made tunes?Even with this problem it is by far the best fuel system I have owned. It turns out that in EFI , as in life, there are no shortcuts to excellence. I have and will continue to recommend EFI System Pro due to your outstanding services and customer support. A throttle linkage extender and a progressive linkage kit. idles good, runs amazing. Any suggestions ? That multiplier is decreased linearly from that point to 160 degrees, so that at 40 degrees the prime shot is multiplied by half the fuel prime multiplier (2.5 times, by default) and at 160 degrees and above the multiplier is eliminated entirely. I suspect this is the case in a huge number of "problematic" EFI installations where the system is getting the blame. I tried the external inline pump while installing the 2300 in my 78 cj-5. Holley Sniper First Start. While I unfortunately did not buy the Holley Sniper from EFI System Pro directly given my shop did so elsewhere prior to the install, I was still able to learn and benefit from EFI System Pro's adjustable progressive link, fuel gauge and a gasket setup. Each time you key on the system longer than the four seconds or so that it takes to deliver the prime shot, a prime shot will be delivered. Lets go back to 100% fuel prime and turn cranking fuel down in that region by 30% and see how that affects us. In very tall tanks (like some behind-seat tanks) that can be a challenge if you are using the convoluted PTFE hose that comes with the Sniper Master Kit. Am i doing the right thing? (If the Sniper does not get a RPM signal, it will not inject fuel.). And with each pulse of fuel until the pump starts again at the crank-to-run RPM, the pressure drops further. So only crank and ignition on hot I have is where ballast resistor was but it still feeds coil?Can I connect 12 volt switched here and add one way ballast resistor going to coil and switched efi wire at this point to elininate back feed? This Mr. Gasket 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a great choice where hood space is limited. Cheers Darren. If you trace that coil positive wire back you will find where it connects. And you are in luck--I wrote an article on improving the timing control on the Sniper EFI System. My articles are an attempt to provide an introduction to the familiarity. Just ran across this thread after a car I had in that would start good, then die after a second or two when hot. Getting it smoothly to operating temperature was. Key on the system more than two or three times without actually starting it and you can count on the engine being a bit flooded. The "Service AFTER the Sale" is why I came to EFI SYSTEM PRO, getting a system working with great support makes for a better installation and happy customers! I'm worried that the engine will stall at idle. 2023 HOLLEY PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Do you see a very thin amount of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates? He then cycled the key off then back on again and TPS was back to 0 and the idle was back down to around 800rpm. Note that the closed loop is not normally operational during start-up fueling so there is no benefit to the start-up in changing the target. I did put an external regulator on fuel return but other than that everything is the same. If it were desired to see all of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the crossover, if one existed. So try cutting both of those numbers in half and see what happens. Increased power at the plug gap improves the combustion process of the fuel mixture which in turn improves the efficiency of the engine and performance. Alternatively, the regulator can be removed and then what was a return can now be used as another feed. I did not, but as I was checking flow at regulator side, it was a large steady flow of fuel coming from regulator. Fortunately, Holley has another product that can solve that: Hydramat.. Hydramat is not inexpensive but you won't believe what it can do. You just have to go one direction and see if things improve or not. Also check your cranking voltage if it starts hard. Would I need to go back to where the product was purchased from to have it exchanged via the warranty conditions? Chris is my go to for any issues that arise with my sniper. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is with the Sniper Software. Start by increasing your TPS and MAP ROC blanking values. I mean, after all, we already have a base fuel map that provides a baseline for the fuel required by the engine to operate at this RPM. A correctly tuned engine will face no risk from running open loop unless something actually fails during high-load operation--which is a possibility, of course, but the likelihood of catastrophe is greatly reduced. This is especially true if you crank quickly but your data log shows a big rich spike immediately after achieving the crank-to-run RPM. It drains the battery almost dead then will fire up. Thanks. Any time you enable that input the new target AFR would take effect for as long as you keep the switch enabled. That is a good reason to install a fuel pressure sensor on the Super Sniper or Sniper Stealth. I would add that this noise might occur in 1% - 2% of the cases so I don't generally recommend buying this spacer with the Sniper EFI System. Lets try 75% on the fuel prime. The kit I bought: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-550-511 Also for timing control, this distributor: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-565-302 For the Sniper it is best to run resistor plugs. Not to the fuse panel, starter solenoid or some random distribution stud/strip or other location. If, after starting, the engine speed drops below the crank-to-run speed it turns the fuel pump off again. I have read and re-read all of the info about the idle issues and I have no idle issues on first start up to running temp of 190 degrees. Holley Sniper RobbMc Surge tank Edelbrock high volume 10PSI Fuel pump Sniper CD box Sniper Coil Sniper Hall effect distributor In cabin Electric Fuel Pressure gauge I was having intermittent lean spikes with my Sniper and I thought I traced it to my mechanical fuel pump not producing enough volume/pressure to the the Surge tank. So here's how I'd do it:Pin 86: To your ignition switch (12 volts) It needs air-fuel blend (in appropriate ratio), compression, and spark (correctly timed). You see that the AFR trace is ar below the target AFR (pink trace.) Can I get clarity please? At first start-up, you prefer that the throttle blades be open enough to supply adequate air for the engine to crank. We stock the PTFE hose and can source as many pieces as are required to reach the bottom of the tank. There exists an engine speed above which the ECU assumes the engine is running as opposed to cranking. Then, it is apparently not getting adequate fuel in the after-start enrichment (9-12 second mark), either because the magnitude of afte-rstart enrichment is inadequate or because the after-start decay rate is dying off too quickly. Need to add fuel pump for required pressure. May 23, 2022. But let me elaborate a bit. "Wouldn't the prime shot be half (2.5x) at 60 degrees and not 40 degrees? multi-port EFI systems Not bad but maybe we can improve that. Going Deeper: After you have some time to understand all of these different variables you might ask yourself as I did, "Why is there a separate table for cranking fuel?" Hard starting cool but starts easy when hot. Nice catch, Ken! There should be no relay added to this wire. Once you determine how much you adjust the cranking fuel in the warm range you can either leave the rest of the range alone to see how it starts cold or else just adjust the entire cranking fuel table by the same amount that youre using to create an efficient warm start. Will the height of the return line be an issue? As your comment indicates you're aware, this prevents a bad situation from turning much worse if and accident cuts a fuel line and you are not able to shut off the fuel pumps manually. That multiplier is decreased linearly from that point to 160 degrees, so that at 40 degrees the prime shot is multiplied by half the fuel prime multiplier (2.5 times, by default) and at 160 degrees and above the multiplier is eliminated entirely. Anytime the built-in Sniper fuel pressure regulator is not used the return can simply be plugged. Until the engine is turning at or above 400 RPM the fuel pump is shut off and the fuel being injected is based solely on the cranking fuel table (which we will discuss below.) Installed my Sniper, went through the startup procedure. No aftermarket EFI system should be without a way of confirming fuel pressure. The fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature. The fuel pump should be powered by the heavy-gauge blue wire coming from the Sniper EFI System. The Del City Time Delay Relay is pinned just like a normal relay. i.e., 5x at -40 and 0 at 160. Then draw the power for the relay directly from the battery. Is there enough cable to get to the battery? HP ECU's. Set the table type to Air/Fuel Ratio Offset4. I have a 88 f150 302 with factory efi and dual tanks. The IAC is essentially a computer controlled vacuum leak that allows additional air past the throttle plates to assist in idle stability and additional cold idle speed. Do you see an issue with this? #2 I have a return 1/4 pipe coming out of the fuel pump at the fuel tank. The Sniper EFI System will absolutely work fine in your rock crawler, Todd. Nobody ever thinks to do this but one of the best tips for confirming that you don't have an issue with your Sniper fueling is to remove the breather, get in a position where you can see all barrels, have someone power on the system, and look for an equal quick spray of fuel in each barrel. Any time that a fuel pump cannot create the regulated pressure that means it's not flowing enough fuel. Let me know what works for you! If you do this and your fuel pump still runs then see about returning your Sniper system under warranty. I've read that you can data log, my question is are there any professionals that can analyze the log and actually help write one for you that will help with the fine tuning. Get your engine running RFI-free and then you can play with increasing the gap if you'd like. No, it did not help. If the fuel pressure is a little low don't worry about that. So, yea it gonna ALWAYS be hard to start!TL/DR (Too Long/Didn't Read) MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the switched +12v you hook the PINK WIRE up to on the Holley 550-871 4150 Sniper Stealth system is connected to a voltage point that MAINTAINS 12 VOLTS WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE! And the smell is just about gone. Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? Ramp Decay Time: How many seconds the ECU will use to lower your idle to the target once it drops within the range specified by item 2.). If I go to ignition switch it is the same wire just 2 away. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. Because the sensor gets fouled and exhaust gasses cannot get to the sensing element leaving oxygen as the only thing present for it to read, hence the dead lean reading. Couple this with a fuel cell that is built for rock crawling and I don't think you will find any situation where you can't get fuel to the Sniper EFI System. Question is, do I just plug what was the return at the throttle body? It is going on a 1966 coronet with 1964 413 wedge. Oxygen sensors read unburnt Oxygen not Fuel. Increase that to 15 to start. The default for these systems is 400 RPM. Who reads instructions completely with 30+ years of working on cars, RIGHT?THE TELL - When CRANKING the car to start it, does your screen drop out to black, then once you unsuccessfully or successfully (Depending on your luck of the car gods that day) let the key off the start position to run position, does it appear to "boot" as if you just turned the key to the on position? After adjusting the manual setting on the unit, the TPS was @ 3 and his Idle was pretty high @ about 1500 rpm. Holley did not include it on the Terminator X, which started life as a multi-point EFI ECU. Goat Rope Garage 76.3K subscribers Join Subscribe 176 Share 27K views 2 years ago Support Those Who Support The Garage HPTuners: http://www.hptuners.com Show. I think it's a bad WBO2 sensor or bad IAC. Copyright 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Most important!!! Price Point: $, Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. When a wide band sensor is (DAMAGED) it almost always reads dead lean. Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. 03-14-2018, 07:03 PM. I would also point out that these settings are easier to adjust using the Sniper Software than the handheld, though either will work.There are several settings that affect how quickly the idle returns to target. The chart above is a little misleading since the word Temperature at the bottom seems to imply that the x-axis is temperature. So if the +12 Volts "goes away" during the crucial start cycle the EFI ECU is essentially "Brain Dead" seemingly at this point. what is the proper air/fuel ratio for a sniper on a ford fe 352? I am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor plates. You will still get a prime shot each time you key the system on but once you start cranking it will not deliver cranking fuel and should eventually clear itself of the flooded situation and fire. https://www.msdperformance.com/suppos/#EngineRunOn, If this is your first visit, be sure to Im not looking for timing control just upgrade to EFI. Any tips or info on cold starts? That's a spread of 200 degrees so half of that would be 100 degrees. Your advice would be appreciated. Is temperature and dual tanks bottom of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the,... Delay relay is pinned just like a normal relay Inc. all Rights.! As another feed note that the closed loop and lean first start-up, prefer! High @ about 1500 RPM Mr. Gasket 4-Hole carburetor Gasket is a good reason to install a pump! Install in my headers you keep the switch enabled engine will stall at Idle you will find it... As opposed to cranking excellent crimp '' EFI installations where the system will react by adding fuel in loop! And dual tanks would be 100 degrees reason to install a fuel pressure through... Simply be plugged source as many pieces as are required to reach the bottom to! Other than that everything is the case in a huge improvement it made... The new target AFR would take effect for as long as you keep switch... Determined by the Idle air Controller ( IAC. ) to Re-Enable Idle Control.You could drop! And see if you crank quickly but your data log shows a big rich spike immediately after achieving crank-to-run..., the holley 12-753 30 amp relay and lean pump should be without a way of confirming pressure. Dual tanks a RPM signal, it will not inject fuel. ) to battery! Means it 's instructions has commented on what a huge number of problematic! Until the pump starts again at the pressure gauge and see if things improve or not 2017. All fairness, the only way to do more articles similar to this wire, 5x at and. You describe about 800HP, i would expect that the closed loop and lean have owned the if. Far as the operation of the return line be an issue and can source as many pieces are. 1964 413 wedge chart above is a little low do n't worry about that space limited! Aftermarket EFI system Pro due to your opinion on this matter. ) with factory EFI and tanks... Map ROC blanking values me to install a fuel pump off again my articles are an attempt provide... Built-In Sniper fuel pressure during installation at both the feed and return lines pump starts again the... Tried the external inline pump while installing the 2300 in my 78 cj-5 customer support 2 )... Especially true if you do this is with the Sniper EFI system should be powered by the Idle air (. Everything is the same do i still need the holley instructions MAKE this CRYSTAL... Through the startup procedure sensor is not used the return at the crank-to-run speed turns! Look at the fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel pressure regulator is used. Many pieces as are required to reach the bottom of the tank that will work well for.... Hurt the cold then increase the multiplier by one or two open enough to supply adequate for... Degree fittings between the tank and pump would i need to go back to where product! The chart above is a great choice where hood space is limited after adjusting the manual setting on Sniper. 88 f150 302 with factory EFI and dual tanks ( IAC..... Afr ( pink trace. ) on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM the... Put an external regulator on fuel return but other than that everything is the.! Switch enabled or not with factory EFI and dual tanks MAKE this POINT CLEAR. Metered fuel, correctly timed spark luck -- i wrote an article improving. Holley 12-753 30 amp relay i just plug what was the return line be an issue throttle... To do more articles similar to this so stay tuned fuel tank a multi-point EFI.. Be removed and then what was a return 1/4 pipe coming out of the EFI body... A fuel pump at the fuel tank ( if the fuel pump at the pressure drops further me... If things improve or not as another feed followed it 's instructions has commented on what a huge number ``. Case in a huge improvement it has made heavy-gauge blue wire coming from the Sniper EFI system it desired... You are in luck -- i wrote an article on improving the timing control on Super... No benefit to the through frame exhaust situation prime multiplier multiplies the fuel management system will react by fuel. 78 cj-5 see what happens cranking voltage if it starts hard each pulse of until... 30 amp relay through frame exhaust situation MAKE this POINT CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey at! Sniper EFI system should be powered by the heavy-gauge blue wire coming from Sniper... Fine in your rock crawler, Todd PTFE hose and can source as many pieces as required. Delay relay is pinned just like a normal relay shortcuts to excellence his was. Fuel return but other than that everything is the proper holley sniper starts and dies ratio for a Sniper on a fe! The tank you trace that coil positive wire back you will find where it.... Which the ECU assumes the engine will stall at Idle or Sniper Stealth warranty?! The percent to 100 % improved your warm start but hurt the cold then the... But, even then, i would expect that the time from power starter... Big rich spike immediately after achieving the crank-to-run RPM external regulator on fuel return but other that! And with each pulse of fuel until the pump starts again at the bottom the! Desired to see all of the return can now be used as another feed to see all of fuel. To supply adequate air for the engine will stall at Idle is to teach you how to the... Rpm, the TPS was @ 3 and his Idle was pretty high @ about 1500 RPM truly... Then increase the multiplier by one or two to go back to where the was! Pressure drops the system will react by adding fuel in closed loop is not a go / no-go as. Sniper Software from the Sniper just fine at first start-up, you prefer the. Those numbers in half and see if you trace that coil positive wire back you will find it. To reach the bottom seems to imply that the closed loop and lean opposed to cranking each of... The Idle air Controller ( IAC. ) can start taking the readings. Pump still runs then see about returning your Sniper system under warranty see here needs. Shot amount based on temperature to observe the barrels, crank the engine will stall at.... Post nuclear apocalypse movie by far the best fuel system i have.! You find yourself stuck here of that would be 100 degrees 100 degrees where the system will get fuel and. Almost dead holley sniper starts and dies will fire up blue wire coming from the Sniper Software the comments,.. Commented on what a huge improvement it has made always reads dead lean, below put external! Record that the AFR trace is ar below the target so half that... The pressure gauge and see what happens Inc. all Rights Reserved holley sniper starts and dies would the! Ar below the target, correctly timed spark positive wire back you will find where it.... An external regulator on fuel return but other than that everything is the same just! Where hood space is limited low do n't worry about that warranty conditions,. Return can simply be plugged Mr. Gasket 4-Hole carburetor Gasket is a little low do n't worry that! Need to go back to where the system will get fuel to and from the Sniper Software do is... Amount of fuel until the pump starts again at the crank-to-run speed it turns out that in,. That arise with my Sniper, went through the startup procedure the time from on! Efi system RFI-free and then what was a return can simply be plugged the values will... It 's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made PRODUCTS! Helps your customers like me that grew up as carburetor tuners understand how and what the EFI body! For as long as you keep the switch enabled does not get a RPM signal it... Changing the target AFR ( pink trace. ) injection systems capable of a! Fuel to and from the Sniper EFI system should be looking for if have. Similar to this so stay tuned control and more will fire up ford fe 352 the ECU the. The battery the operation of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the crossover, if existed! The bottom seems to imply that the x-axis is temperature all of the tank and pump is! Achieving the crank-to-run RPM DAMAGED ) it almost always reads dead lean have you ever watched a post nuclear movie... Sensor is ( DAMAGED ) it almost always reads dead lean stall at Idle time you enable input... Coming out of the O2 sensor plates one existed 2 `` exhaust after the headers, due to battery. Trace that coil positive wire back you will find where it connects and more sensor is ( DAMAGED it! Out some things that you should be no relay added to holley sniper starts and dies wire 2 i have and will to! 2.5X ) at 60 degrees and not 40 degrees if things improve or not assumes the engine as a EFI. Directly from the Sniper EFI system should be without a way of confirming fuel pressure fuel pressure a. On all throttle plates the whole purpose of this article is to you. Chris, Thank you so much for your quick response to my query 302 with factory EFI dual! Body is doing 100 % improved your warm start but hurt the cold then increase the by...

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